Theres been alot of discussion about how young children/toddlers deal with the loss of a sibling or how to talk to them about it.
It's started me thinking that it may be slightly easier (iykwim) when they had some idea that a baby was coming, they may have even seen the baby after he/she was born, so there was a physical being (iykwim).
Here's my question, thought, how about subsequent children? I'm always trying to talk to Loralei about Trinity and show her pics, but, I think it's actually going to be a long while before she actually grasps the gravity/reality that she isn't our first born and that she has a big sister. Will it ever be an emotional thing to her and Gabe, since they never had a physical connection. Will it ever be REAL to them, or just a story that Mum and Dad tell, even if we manage it in the right way. Loralei knows whos in the picture, but she doesn't have anything to remeber as such. Am I making any sense.
This has all just dawned on me, we can tell our children about Trinity till the cows come home, but without a memory, what will it actually mean to them, when will they realise just how huge this is? Will the be 10/11/12? teenagers? young adults? parents themselves? Am I selfish for wanting them to have some kind of emotion about Trinity even though they will never really know her?
Ok I'm rambling now, all these toughts are flooding my mind, I need to go and have a shower. This has really just entered my mind this morning and it seems so huge.

Hmmmm .... you pose some very good questions there Manda. I suppose it is different for us because Bayden is Julia's BB therefore he knew about her and saw her after she was born (not that he will remember). But if you lose your first child and then go on to have subsequent child/ren, you are right they have nothing physical to "pin" those emotions to. I guess IMO the best thing you can do as a parent is to just keep the memory of our angels alive and hope that as your subsequent child/ren get older it will sink in more. Probably once they are old enough to understand life and death more too. I know for a fact that Bayden has said at school that he has a little sister, but she is an angel up in heaven, and he was very matter of fact about it (luckily all of the staff know about Julia and what happened and were able to handle the situation beautifully). I have even had the girls at school come up to me and ask me what is in my locket and I say "a photo of Bayden's little sister who died" they then ask how did she die and I just honestly say that "she died while she was in my tummy". Now these are kids who have no connection to our family and probably had no knowledge of this before hand and they grasp it really quickly, they even ask to see Julia's photo (in my locket). I think as kids get older, they get a better understanding of things and you are able to explain things easier to them IYKWIM?
Hope that helps answer some of your questions, not that I am an expert in this area

Hi Manda,

I think what Carley said pretty much covers it. I definitely think their understanding and acknowledgement will become stronger with age.

Even with Flynn being an older sibling, it is difficult, as I know he understands something has happened and that Satori is not here, but I can see his little mind ticking over, and its frustrating not to know what he would like to know, if you know what I mean.
I imagine he may start asking some questions around 4yrs old. In some ways I cannot wait, as I want him to be comfortable about talking about Satori, and I really want him to know that he has this beautiful little sister that just can't be with us, but who watches over us always.

I forgot to add that Bayden has a very good understanding of why Julia is not with us and he speaks openly about her and talks to her and sings her songs. He will even climb up on my knee and open my locket to look at her picture.

Carley, it is so nice that Bayden does that. It must warm your heart. I can't wait for the day that Flynn asks bigger questions and shows more understanding.

We were given a fantastic book from my cousin called "What happened to Baby". Apparently you can only get it online through The Skylight organisation (http://www.skylight.org.nz). It's designed for 3-7 year olds. I have read it once to Caitlyn (who wil be 3 in May) and plan to read it to her every month more frequently once she asks more questons.

Thats the name of the book!! I knew someone would know it. Have heard that it is a good book, we didnt need it with Bayden as he has a really good understanding of life and death, must be something to do with living on a farm

The funeral home gave me that book too, we didnt need it because DH's boy is 13. I would like to offer to send it to someone who needs it, but I associate it with Georgia and can't let go! Sorry Most of the funeral homes should have a copy or be able to get one though. I feel so selfish now!!

Tracey - don't ever feel selfish. I know exactly how you feel. I have turned into a real hoarder where Liam is concerned and have a box full of stuff .... anything and everything has been kept and I couldn't bear to part with it!! I bought a sturdy box from the Warehouse and got Caitlyn to cover it in colourful stickers and have his name stuck on with scrapbooking letters. It looks very colourful and I still love looking through his bits and pieces.

Thanks Tanya We accumulated a lot of baby things but because we moved in Dec I never set GG's room up, I think that has been a good thing really because I don't have a big association with the baby things or the room. It was where she was going to be, but never was. All I have of her are the things from the funeral home, her pictures and prints and ofcourse her ashes. DH got me a beautiful butterfly necklace for my 30th bday (10 days after GG's bday) that I never take off. The box sounds beautiful. I might borrow that idea! A friend of mine wants to borrow the book for her 2 year old, she has started asking about GG, she is a very intelligent wee girl and is asking "Tacie's bubba? where Georgy?" (we had named her before I got sick) I have asked her if I can read the book to her. She is such a beautiful girl. I can't help but look at her and wonder what GG would be like at that age. She also turned 2 on GG's birthday, and she knows that she shares her birthday with an Angel. I am stealing the forum now lol sorry guys! Once I start, I find it hard to stop.

hehe I'm going to thread jack here
Here are some pics of the memory box that I made for Julia, it has all of her scan pics in it, the pregnancy test that I took, pretty much all of the stuff that I collected for her, and it has the jersey that I knitted for her.




These are the little booties that I had made as they are the exact size that Julia's feet were when she was born and the the hat would have been a perfct fit.

What a pretty memory box Carley, and a great idea knitting the hat and booties to size I bought Satori an outfit, probably a week before we lost her, that I had been thinking about buying her for ages, so I have put it in her box. You might ask "why did I not dress her in it" Because it was a summer outfit (completely inpractical really - the sort of thing you take them out in) and I felt like she needed to be warm and covered. I have a whole dresser full of clothes that I bought for her, which I have decided, after alot of soul searching, to keep in case I have another girl, however that particular outfit will never be worn, as it is hers.

That's a lovely Memory Box Carley. will have to remember to take a photo of Liam's to put on here.

Hey Manda,
I actually snuck(sp) on here a while back and read this and have been pondering it ever since and when I have some time I will post a proper reply, only because I know a lady who has had to deal with this (her kids are now teenagers, so I asked for her take on it
Will get back to you!

Thanks Jacqui,
I still haven't really come up with an 'answer'. In fact, it's almost becoming harder and harder to fathom. I'm feeling increasingly like a Mum of 2 and thats really hard to take especially with Trinitys third birthday coming up. More and more people are saying, oh how nice, one of each, mostly I just grin and bear it because they're usually just passing comments, but it still hurts.
Anyway, I'm waffling, I'm going to go and hit the hay, we'll have to catch up soon. . . will pop back in tomorrow....

Manda, I get the 'pigeon pair' comment quite a bit too and I do too grin and bear it. Because I'll always have 2 girls and a boy in my heart...

My thoughts on this very good question,

I talk about Riley all the time with Kairyn, I show him the stars in the sky, and tell him that is where Riley is and like you show him photo's etc... I refer alot of the time as "your brother Riley" to help him get an understanding that he does have another brother.

By sharing your memories with your children, those memories will then become their memories, not concrete but they will create a picture of Trinity in their own minds, and they will have an understanding that Trinity was really here, and you will see this for yourself when you hear them talking to others of their big sister.
Loralei and Gabe will only know Trinity as well as you knew her, their love and understanding of her will be different to yours, just the same as brothers and sisters love each other differently to how their parents love their children. Hope this makes sense

When Loralei and Gabe are older they will go through their own kind of greiving process, they will definatley(sp) have emotions about their sister and (this coming from my friend) will have times that they may feel angry/sad because Trinity is their big sis and she's not here to do the big sister things. My friends kids often say if W was here, this may have/have not happened etc... , but they have a genuine love for their brother and miss him, they really do get it, so will our kids, but not until they are older.

Kairyn is starting to have an awareness that Riley is a part of the family, because this morning when he making sure everyone, me, dad, ty and caden had belly buttons he also asked if Riley had one, so I know he's starting to get it, but we're still a long way off from fully understanding the gravity of it.

I hope this has not confused you in way

Well put Jacqui. The way you have explained it is bang on. As kids get older their awareness will heighten and they will deal with their emotions in their own ways. the best that we can do as parents is to just be there for them and answer their questions as honestly as possible, yet still keeping the answers age appropiate. IYKWIM.

There's been some great suggestions here.

I had a difficult one the other day - Caitlyn has been talking to her grandparents on a Webcam on the computer and the other day she walked into the office when I was viewing some of the video we had taken of Liam in NICU. She got very excited and said "Liam's body is working now!!"

I had to think really quickly and skipped to some video of her WITH Liam so that I could explain better the difference between video taken 2 months ago and when she talks to Nana and Granddad on the computer, that is 'now'.

Tanya, that is so precious yet so heart breaking at the same time.

Well I won't have subsequent children. But my dear friend is 19 and her older brother died 2 years before she was born. She visits his grave weekly and takes him gifts. She said she started feeling really connected to him when she turned aroun 15.

My other friend is 25 and her older brother who she never met was stillborn and he'd be 27 this year. She never really had any emotional ties to him until she turned 20 and her mother let her see all his baby things. And she said seeing all his tiny things and booties just broke her heart and now she visits his grave monthly and takes him sakura blossoms in the spring time.

I do think it has a lot to do with how we as parents involve our angels. But as you can see my 2 friends do have emotional ties to their brothers who died before they were even born.

well guys its nearly 4.5 months and I think I feel more muddled now than before.
I think because life has resumed to normality for most, that I feel mine should be too, however this is almost impossible.
I think alot more often now about what I would be doing now, if Satori were here, and I seem to lack motivation to actually do much at all, because all I really want to be doing is looking after my new baby
I really want another baby, but I want her here too:!: Pregnancy scares me to death, because my experience has taught me that anything can happen, and that my body doesn't like late pregnancy. I just know I will be a cot case, if I am lucky enough to concieve again

to you Yvonne. I'm finding it hard too with life around me returning to normality. I just keep on telling myself that Liam would hate to see me on a stand-still grieving him and that keeps me going (that and his almost 3 year old sister!). It doesn't mean I miss or love him any less - it's just what gets me through.
Take care Sweetie.
xox